Heaven

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What is Heaven?

Christian views

• Member view - User:John_P._Fernandez

"We simply don’t know what the physics of our eternal world will be like. We are told that the laws of thermodynamics won’t be in effect there (no decay). We will have some sort of “glorified” body, but we are not told exactly what that is, and we probably wouldn’t fully understand it anyway.

Jesus promises eternal fellowship with those who choose to be with Him. Where is He now? Christians don't know. When is He coming back? Christians don't know. Why hasn’t He come yet? Christians don't know. According to the early believers/followers (who I trust) He told them: “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” (John 14:2-3)"

Some Christians believe in “hidden” dimensions. They are consistent with modern scientific theory and with the teachings of Jesus. It is true that these hidden dimensions are tiny compared to the height/width/depth/time dimensions we currently occupy with our bodies, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that those hidden dimensions are empty or devoid of life. Secularists should not be so quick to discount the possibility of “life” existing in those realms. The spiritual realm does not require mass/space/time as does our current physical/material universe. Think of it, your physical body contains mass and takes up space in this universe. The actions of your physical body are recorded in the dimension of “time.” Your thoughts, however, contain no mass and take up no space in this universe. Nor are they subject to “time.” And where there is no dimension of “time” there is only eternity, for eternity is the very absence of time.

These hidden dimensions need not be large to contain thoughts/ideas/minds. Thoughts/ideas/minds (not to be confused with the material brain) are completely “mass free.” The hidden dimensions could conceivably contain an infinite number of thoughts/ideas/minds (spirits/souls) without ever running out of “space” to contain them.

The interesting thing is that your thoughts are arguably more “real” than the actions that follow them in the physical realm. Every physical action is preceded by a “thought” directing the action. Thoughts/ideas are what cause change in the world. Before Hitler killed millions, he had the “thought/idea” of doing it. Before Mother Theresa comforted thousands of people dying from AIDS, she had the “thought/idea” of doing it. The consequences of our thoughts/ideas reverberate throughout the physical/material world. They are more powerful than we know. This is why Jesus taught us to pray (share our ideas/thoughts) with the Father (Creator/God) who would in turn share His ideas/thoughts with us (Matthew 6:9). It is also why Jesus taught that sin (moral corruption) includes our thoughts/ideas, not just our actions. (Matthew 5:28). This is also why Paul taught that we all fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). None of us are free from sinful thoughts. Not Mother Theresa, not Billy Graham, and CERTAINLY not anyone else.

Secularists say that this assertion "proposes ideas and mechanics that have no impetus from any known theory." Research the topic of neutrinos. It was once thought (and taught in colleges as truth by the way) that neutrinos possessed no mass. We now know that neutrinos are oscillating which indicates that they do indeed have mass. They are tiny to be sure. So tiny, in fact, that they can go right through the entire earth without ever stopping, as if nothing was there. Like protons, neutrons, and electrons, they contain mass and energy. Since secularists say that “thoughts” require mass and energy to exist. Okay, then how much mass is required? How much energy? Are you prepared to rule out the possible existence of thoughts/ideas/minds in the quantum (invisible) realm? I’m not.

The secularist focus on “size” is in error. What we are learning from quantum mechanics and theory is that there really is no such thing as “size” except in our own 4 dimensional universe. Following the secularist reasoning, one might argue (from a standpoint of looking in from the universe’s edge) that a place as small a earth, so tiny as to be utterly invisible from the universe’s edge. If size were truly an issue in every realm, then why would it not be an issue on earth? In fact, our galaxy is rather tiny in the whole scheme of the universe. Why is it not too small for sufficient mass/energy to exist in the form of thought/action/life? Secularists are thinking from an earth-bound perspective."

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Secular views

• Member view - User: Jcb

This assertion proposes ideas and mechanics that have no impetus from any known theory. While anything could be so small that it could exist, there are no theories that propose such phenomena. It is hard to imagine that the extra 6 (or 7, or 22) dimensions are capable of containing life. The size of these dimensions are the Planck length of the quantum foam itself: 10 to the -33 cm. This is unimaginably smaller than any subatomic particle – it is the very ‘foaminess’ of space-time itself.

Thoughts require mass and energy. There is no scientific concept of the idea of a thought outside of the system that is thinking it. A thought requires a being made up of cells to form electrical impulses that perform an action. Higher-end beings become self-aware, but that mechanism is still based on neurochemistry. In the absence of cells, it is hard to see how you can have thoughts.

Since thoughts are the formation of neurological signals as an impetus to perform an action, they are time-based as well. Forming a thought requires time – electrical signals travel around 500 MPH. If a giant were to lie down with his head in NYC and his feet in Miami, it would take a couple hours for him to feel a shark gnawing on his toe (ignoring the autonomous system short-circuit wiring).

The quantum foam is the source of limitless energy, as long as the energy ledger is balanced. Modern cosmology taps into the same quantum foam that you are describing to create new universes. These universes, since they have no net energy, are nothing special. It is indeed possible that other processes could tap into this energy as well.

While secularism has few absolute truths (no absolute good and evil, no absolute right and wrong), the one absolute that creeps out almost all physicists is how mathematical truths describe physical reality. These ideas are reminiscent of quantum action-at-a-distance and the holographic universe, which are indications that all things may be inextricably linked.

Everything in known physics and theories points to the Planck scale as being ‘the bottom’, size-wise. In fact, QM, through Heisenberg, states that anything below that is unknowable. The whole particle menagerie, from neutrinos and quarks to the new force particles being discovered, such as the Higgs, are MUCH larger than the Planck scale. So if there are universes down there, they are completely unknowable (according to QM) and would be made of particles and subject to laws that are completely unknown and have no evidence at all. This is not an an earth-bound perspective so much as a perspective that tries to represent scientific theories and scientific reasoning.

Resources are needed. Feel free to find and add resources.